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Gugnir or Ace in the hole? (Raids, bosses)

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  • Class: {{esusrinfo_class413976}}
    Level: {{esusrinfo_level413976}}
    Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild413976}}

    Gugnir or Ace in the hole? (Raids, bosses)

    Hello everyone, I am not a Rena / DayB main myself, but more of someone who's been submaining her and I've done a bit of testing, since I kinda noticed that Aero strafe bursts quite a lot of damage as compared to gungnir

    So, I'm not 100% aware or exactly know the changes to rena while I was away, I got back a month ago and I didn't really check much, so a few surprises here and there. So now, I noticed that Ace in the hole on my end deals 31m dmg as opposed to gungnir, dealing 24m, both their highest (both are not used in awakening) and if during awakening, Ace in the hole deals 58m and Gungnir, 48m. These tests were done with the Boss dummy with X defense. (idk what that means) And so, I did another test with the boss dummy with defense O, this time gungnir having 24m and ace in the hole 18m. These were in awakening, ace in the hole also having to be buffed with the 3rd job passive the blessed arrow buff(?) with 4 stacks on that.

    So, I'm quite curious on which of the two are to be stacked for tears that are going to be used against a dungeon boss or during raids. I also forgot to mention that I already have 29% Gungnir stacking as of this post. and Ace in the hole with 9%. Should I just abandon Gungnir stacking pre-reboot now/? Or keep them until the reboot comes? (I've already prepared another set which has ace in the hole though)

    Thanks

    EDIT - Forgot to mention, Yes I am aware that Gugnir got changed. There was a spear before i think that dealt the most damage(?) or the numbers just got changed. From what i remember 1 1/2 year ago is that it had two I guess projectiles(?) that had two seperate dmg values as well.




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  • Class: {{esusrinfo_class413983}}
    Level: {{esusrinfo_level413983}}
    Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild413983}}

    #2
    With the reboot peaking near I'd say something totally else and stack Aero Tornado. Otherwise Gungnir.

    "Let justice be done, though the Heavens fall."

    Comment

    • Class: {{esusrinfo_class414093}}
      Level: {{esusrinfo_level414093}}
      Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild414093}}

      #3
      for gungnir you get mp gain when inside it (unmodded) ace in the hole changed drastically.

      the skill can now be held for 10 sec costing 73 mp per sec(750 mp 1k+ total) so at max ace can deal 100k%. you also take no damage when using the skill.

      modded gugnir trades in the heal and half damage for a pre ace in the hole effect.


      keep ace tears (only 20%) and change gungnir tears into aero strafe tears. take not that if you do want to maximize the bossing potential then you need mp pots but except during raid the most you'll need is to hold for 5 secs

      Comment


      • Familiar235-gaia-
        Familiar235-gaia- commented
        Editing a comment
        whats the reason why I shsould sack Aero strafe over Gungnir now? Aero deals 16m on my end for now

      • xEclipsa-solace-
        xEclipsa-solace- commented
        Editing a comment
        quite frankly gugnir just sucks now. it is even more apparent with the ace change. most build left gungnir out and favored crazy shot.

        since reboot aero strafe and rapid shot both have good i-frames along with ace so that alone is the main reason all pve builds will have those skills.

        im not sure what raiders think about gungnir since it's a fire and forget but i think they prefer i frames and damage rather than damage(you only get SA while using gungnir)

      • Stratagem-solace-
        Stratagem-solace- commented
        Editing a comment
        Gungnir is still good though ??? Before reboots you ran both Gungnir and Crazy Shot and after reboots you still run both Gungnir and Crazy Shot. What you don't run is Rapid Shot. That skill has been, and still is, an absolutely garbage skill. No one that seriously plays the class runs it.

        What matters in raid is dmg. People use Gungnir in raid because it does damage. The reason many opt to stack Aero Tornado over Gungnir is because of i-frames, since it's easier to use Aero Tornado, but they still use Gungnir a lot during raid. With Heavy it does 16k% while having really good mp refund for both you and your party. Not using it is seriously gimping yourself.

        I hate being that guy, but I really don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to this class.
    • Class: {{esusrinfo_class414196}}
      Level: {{esusrinfo_level414196}}
      Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild414196}}

      #4
      UPDATE: i suggest waiting for more info as they are messing with gungnir right now but dont get hopes up

      Comment

      • Class: {{esusrinfo_class414223}}
        Level: {{esusrinfo_level414223}}
        Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild414223}}

        #5
        Originally posted by xEclipsa-solace- View Post
        for gungnir you get mp gain when inside it (unmodded) ace in the hole changed drastically.

        the skill can now be held for 10 sec costing 73 mp per sec(750 mp 1k+ total) so at max ace can deal 100k%. you also take no damage when using the skill.

        modded gugnir trades in the heal and half damage for a pre ace in the hole effect.


        keep ace tears (only 20%) and change gungnir tears into aero strafe tears. take not that if you do want to maximize the bossing potential then you need mp pots but except during raid the most you'll need is to hold for 5 secs
        I'm not one to stop someone from playing how they want to play, but why the ♥♥♥♥ are you recommending stacking aero strafe? When optimally played DB is a bravery character. All of her best skills are bravery, normal Gungnir, current Ace in the Hole, and Aero Tornado all do around 16k% with heavy. Empowered Aero Strafe only hits around 12k%. You should already be using a bravery ring so it's much better to focus on one of her bravery skills instead of Aero Strafe.

        In regards to the new ace in the hole, it simply isn't worth stacking because of a few reasons.
        1. How long it animation locks you. You are unable to do anything else while the skill is going on so your dmg is limited solely to Ace.
        2. Other skills have overall higher burst. Normal Gungnir and Aero Tornado both have higher dps than the new Ace. Even normal crazy shot beats it out in terms of dps. When I say dps I'm looking at how long it takes to cast the skill instead how long the skill lasts for, since you're free to do other stuff while those skills finish up.
        3. Nothing will stay still long enough for you to actually make full use of Ace. That's the simple reality of it. On paper it looks strong but in practice it doesn't matter if your target just simply moves out of the way.


        With that being said, since this is in regards to raid bosses your best bet is stacking either Aero Tornado or Gungnir. Heavy Gungnir edges out Heavy Aero Tornado by about 500% roughly (if we exclude the nf procs) but Aero Tornado does offer i-frames where Gungnir does not. Gungnir though does have the increased mp regen when inside of it to take into consideration which is pretty potent. You can't go wrong stacking either of these skills. Most DBs stack Aero Tornado, I myself stack Gungnir.

        After the reboots in general you'll more than likely get more mileage out of stacking Aero Tornado. With the change to Ace in the Hole you're going to be forced to used mod Gungnir for clearing, and with mod doing half as much dmg as normal boosting Aero Tornado will let you use it for bossing in both raid and normal runs. This is subject to change depending on how much they buff mod Gungnir, but more than likely it'll still be better to go with Aero Tornado.

        Youtube: Stratagem

        Comment


        • Stratagem-solace-
          Stratagem-solace- commented
          Editing a comment
          Typically you want either Polarize or Party Crit for your top, Party Magic Attack or Party Attack Speed for your bot, All Skill Damage for your gloves (unless you can somehow get a hold of bravery stacks), and either Bravery Cooldown Reduction or Boss Damage for your shoes. Defense ignore usually doesn't do much for you since most mobs are just giant hp sandbags instead of having any actual defense. mpcr isn't bad but you get a lot more mileage out from the other proficiency options I listed above.

        • Familiar235-gaia-
          Familiar235-gaia- commented
          Editing a comment
          Is Bravery Skill stacking better than ASD? I was told ASD is better even for raids lol

          I only have an HR 19 Bravery +9% stack from 3 years ago, didn't throw it away

        • Stratagem-solace-
          Stratagem-solace- commented
          Editing a comment
          Bravery Stacking is better if you can get 2+ Enhancement effect. With a +11 that equates to +65% dmg increase to your braveries which is huge (especially since all you really use is Braveries in raid). If you're like me though and can't afford it then ASD is also good. Whether ASD is better than stacking depends on the class. For DB stacking is better if you can get the highest version, if not stick with ASD.
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