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to what extent do you think elsword is pay to win/free to play?

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  • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382107}}
    Level: {{esusrinfo_level382107}}
    Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382107}}

    to what extent do you think elsword is pay to win/free to play?

    to what extent do you personally think elsword is pay to win/free to play on a scale of 1 through 10 (1 being not very to 10 being very).
  • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382119}}
    Level: {{esusrinfo_level382119}}
    Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382119}}

    8 out of 10
    The PvP is completely pay to win. Being able to efficiently clear end game content without needing a carry is not obtainable by free players. You can probably get enough CP to enter the dungeons through heavy farming but you probably won't clear it unless there's someone really overpower with you. In most cases you will burn through a full day of revives in 1 or 2 runs.

    It is definitely pay to win but i give it a 8 because there are worst games out there. I've seen games where the strongest "legendary weapons" are only obtainable through paid loot boxes. We can get a Void weapon sort of free, though its true potential will probably require the some real life funding. The current end game raid weapon is completely out of the reach of free player hands however.
    Heros come and go but legends live forever


    • xEclipsa-solace-
      xEclipsa-solace- commented
      Editing a comment
      same but but i cant solo 12-4 (well i did and died alot) effectively cause of those melee flying things. besides 12-2/3 and 11-3/5 normal one can solo everything just with the free heroic+9.

    • MyShinyTeeth-solace-
      Editing a comment
      Well it may actually be possible to solo the dungeons as a free player now since they reduced the debuff of Varnimyr. I'm glad they're trying to improve.
      But buying amulets or fluorite which can only be obtain with cash from other players doesn't make it less of a pay to win game. For example if the people selling k-ching items just decided to sell fluorite for 1 bil each or amulets for 100bil, there's no alternative for a free player to get that item. It almost similar to a friend giving you cash items because they're quitting the game. You're still a free player but the game isn't.

    • Effrontery-solace-
      Effrontery-solace- commented
      Editing a comment
      I quite agree, especially on the "heavy farming" part of your statement. Every free to play player that I know that can do varn efficiently is where they are because of the amount of grinding they put in. I don't think it's normal for someone to grind as much as those people hence why I also agree that raid is out of the question for many. Luck is also another factor that helps with being able to get through content such as people who are able to enhance to a +11 in a few tries.
  • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382120}}
    Level: {{esusrinfo_level382120}}
    Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382120}}

    It's pay to win-faster with the "win" being "stop grinding" or "be pretty, which is the true endgame tbh".

    People say you can buy off your favorite sets from cashers without money, but it really depends on what you like, it could potentially take centuries without cashing (Merching also probably require you to have a good ED supply beforehand, for which you'll either need to sell KC or grind for weeks and months).

    Can't rank this tbh since "winning" is subjective. But if you like fashion, yeah that's pretty-much "gimme munnie happi happi" unless you have a supply chain of IM sellers.

    Once you're bored, being a good F2P game doesn't matter.
    Last edited by CrimsomRayko-solace-; 01-10-2019, 01:01 PM.


    • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382123}}
      Level: {{esusrinfo_level382123}}
      Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382123}}

      i don't really consider it pay to win
      more like pay to get access to stuff quickly

      i say this cause i'm a free player and i can solo varnimyr dungeons (my latest attempt at 12-8 took 11 minutes but i messed up on the boss)
      but getting to this point did take a good amount of grinding, being good at the market and just luck to get a +11 on an enhancement event (though i did use over 1b ed)


      • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382126}}
        Level: {{esusrinfo_level382126}}
        Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382126}}

        A solid 5.

        You can do everything in the game completely F2P, but for things like getting varnymir raid weapon or something, it's going to take a lot of time.
        The only reason I don't put the number even lower than that is because of PvP. Because, well, that absolutely qualifies as P2W - no two ways about that. So if you're into that, good luck.


        • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382130}}
          Level: {{esusrinfo_level382130}}
          Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382130}}

          this game is a 2/3 on the scale.

          PVP in any game like this is always going to be pay to win so that point is already deducted just for pvp. the second point is for the enhancement problems and that really goes for +9 and above. right now you can get a +9 heroic weapon and +8 elrianode armor(armor wont break) which this alone will get you to 150k CP (provided you at least have some medium teir elite el tears on it).

          a characters story quests provides (this is a guestimate) around 100-120 mil ED which is enough to buy a costume weapon or it could be saved up and you just stick with getting the event costume from ariel. since by endgame you should already have 150k CP (buy a elite ASD glove on board) you can work your way up to 220k CP with unique tears you get and even make more profit by selling other el tears.

          so right there you now have free access to a full costume, good equipment, a good chunk of ED to buy resources. then you have the option of getting void and with a good chunk of ED should be able to buy a +9 amy (or god forbid if they ever have another +9 amy event)

          next the bslot/quickslot/big inventory are now free permanently. there is a mod skill quest and the books are not easy but so-so drops. from all this alone you can play 85% of the game without paying. for me right now story mode raid is enough and for others as well so anything regarding that is more of a bonus, and even then they have added a lot of things for players to get rewards more easily(as one can).

          at the end it is more of a pay for convenience than it ever was


          • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382132}}
            Level: {{esusrinfo_level382132}}
            Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382132}}

            I say about 3 out of 10 in terms of being F2P friendly.

            I don't care what you possible can do, I care what you need to enjoy the game without having to go trough any painful boring process. And no, you can't get the extra ERP pages, pet aura, re-identifications, skill ring, RoF, costumes, upgrades and so on as fast as you need them. If you not at least pay for convenience, your fun will drop at Elrianode drastically. There are actually a lot of incentives in this game to buy stuff in the cash shop that aren't obvious at first glance.


            • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382155}}
              Level: {{esusrinfo_level382155}}
              Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382155}}

              7/10. You can buy almost all you need with ED, but it's going to take months of farming. Cashing cuts a lot of that time.

              It was a lot worse before. And before that it was much better than now (using 5~10 chars to craft a single Henir set in a fixed time > using however many chars you want and it not mattering at all because it's all RNG-based).

              PvP was always 100% P2W. As was getting pretty.


              • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382160}}
                Level: {{esusrinfo_level382160}}
                Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382160}}

                It's honestly very subjective. I say that p2w means that at some point I'd have to shell out cash to make progress. Which you dont have to do in here, so i'd say it's 'pay for convince'. I'm a f2p player as well with three characters at 300k+ CP.

                The problem is that most modern day gamers these days are busy and a typical person can maybe only dedicate 2-3 hours to actually playing (maybe even less). So making progress in the game seems to take very long, especially if you don't have ED to cut down your farming time and/or you don't have the patience to wait for enhancement events-(and even then you need to pray to RNG).

                So, being f2p is just hard. Harder then necessary? I think so at times too but it's not like it's impossible.
                Last edited by PrismaLight-solace-; 01-10-2019, 05:47 PM.


                • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382169}}
                  Level: {{esusrinfo_level382169}}
                  Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382169}}

                  I rate 8/10 F2P,

                  All Revamp/Upgrade has now changed to easier to grind and improve, sell those drop to earn for more ED in order to buy IBs costumes/Acc even it's take time but still worth because if there's a will, there is a way for you to get. You have to motivate to grind everything to make at least a main can fight and farm at the same time.

                  PvP can be possible to F2P, still need a good practice and talent with all gears/IB Costumes you set, to deal with more powerful players who have everything faster than yours.

                  F2P maybe take longer times to get better, at least we still have many ways to get ED to buy rare stuff. Just make one only main char to get your game a smooth run without worry too much to other alts.


                  • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382178}}
                    Level: {{esusrinfo_level382178}}
                    Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382178}}

                    I'd have to agree that the game isn't strictly pay to win, but it's.. suggestively pay to win? If that makes sense. Or "pay for convenience" is better. PVP entirely out of my own opinion because I don't do that, PVE has made strides and gotten a lot better for the average player. There is a lot of free stuff you can get now, and I think some of the grinding time needs to be cut down (ex. the event dungeons), but it's still technically free.

                    Endgame, as it always tends to be, is where things get frustrating. I give massive kudos to people who have tons of CP, because I find grinding for el tears to be extremely boring, unrewarding, and way too random. You're essentially hoping for a random drop, then luck your way into a random shape, then random color, then random ID. Heroic armor/weapons being sealed now makes the market incredibly better to deal with, but want a Void weapon? That's.. more grinding, and more "luck your way into it." 800 runs for one weapon locked onto one character is not my ideal way of playing any game, lol. Especially when elsword runs lack any sort of reward or incentive to the side. At least drop me some potions or something!

                    So, like - it's average, entirely free to play, and the game is way friendlier now than it has been in the past, but.. endgame still sort of nudges you to a point where you grind your butt off nonstop or you cough over ED/buy Kching to get certain gear and/or enhancements easier.

                    But... even if you buy Kching.. you're still at the mercy of RNG when enhancing, lol. So, you can still be someone who spends 10 dollars or 1,000 dollars. Maybe a strong 6 or 7 out of 10 or so, in terms of being good for f2p. I'm happy with what Elsword has done thus far, and you can't deny we're now spoiled with an ED shop, events giving free pets, costumes, etc.. but I'd still like to see a few more tweaks hopefully somewhere down the line.
                    Last edited by Allensiah-solace-; 01-12-2019, 01:36 PM.

                    Support? IM Costume Rotate | ❤ @Aishmael


                    • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382186}}
                      Level: {{esusrinfo_level382186}}
                      Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382186}}

                      Everything before Elrianode is pay for convenience.

                      Elrianode onward is heavily pay 2 play.

                      PvP is straight up pay 2 win unless you have god like (and I mean godlike) luck with drops (unique force actives / passives and speed bottoms were a huge mistake, let alone general enhancement problems).

                      I'd put the game overall at 7 or 8 out of 10 in regards to pay 2 win. I'm a f2p player but am also a pretty old veteran so am relatively well off in the game, yet there's still ♥♥♥♥ I can't do and have to put up with because of the paywalls.

                      Youtube: Stratagem


                      • Gunz224-solace-
                        Gunz224-solace- commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'd say Elrianode itself wasn't that bad. A tiny hurdle, but the item and CP requirements weren't outside of reason, especially if you took the detour to Secret and Heroic dungeons. Well, assuming you have no aspirations of doing Normal 11-4 & 5.

                        But there is no excusing Varnimyr in this regard.

                      • Priore-solace-
                        Priore-solace- commented
                        Editing a comment
                        i strongly agree with this. being an old player has benefits towards how hard you're beat back with the paywall stick since you likely have decent titles, a solid costume or two, and the necessary kching accessories like mana neck+skill ring from events+a long time playing. for being f2p even as a vet you're pretty limited on what you can do with alts too, you'll likely have one well-geared main but getting anywhere near that on alts tends to be muchhh harder to do. If you're a f2p vet i'd rate the game as a 7-8 on how severely p2w it is, but for completely new players i would say its at least 8.5, maybe even 9, because the total ease and speed which it takes to get to elrianode and varnimyr but then the total wall you hit afterwards. Unless you're a social butterfly you probably won't have the friends+resources to progress much further without an insane and rather unfulfilling grind

                      • NoctisCaeIum-solace-
                        Editing a comment
                        Elrianode onward being Pay 2 Play?

                        If OP of this thread is referring to PvE this would be more accurate instead of pay2win
                    • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382190}}
                      Level: {{esusrinfo_level382190}}
                      Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382190}}

                      Since I myself has never really cared about PvP in any serious capacity, it won't be factoring into my opinion.

                      After many revamps and QoL changes, in terms of the core game itself, I think the game is probably at its least Pay2Win state ever. B-Slots and item slots expansions are standard. MP gain increases have been demoted to a heavily normalized stat. Skill Notes are a thing of the past. Most things tend to come pre-sealed, even elite El Tears are not pre-sealed (though uniques aren't). So in that regards in just base mechanics.

                      Before Elrianode and Varnimyr, I would've rated it pretty well since even if you weren't OP geared, you could still enjoy most of the content, though you'd probably be carried, but the fact you can still do it was more than enough for me.

                      Elrianode was fine after they introduced Story Mode difficulty, and even after the change to CP, it is still at least reasonable since Heroic gear will get you most of the way.

                      But with Varnimyr's high CP requirements, I can't excuse it. Even those who got high CP without actually cashing, that typically requires other people to have cashed in your stead, which still means there is a pay aspect to it.

                      So, the time after we got Story Mode Elrianode, I'd say 8/10. But now that Varnimyr is basically just a giant brick wall, it drops to like a 5/10.
                      I just can't reasonably accept this kind of main story gating being blocked by what is essentially a giant pay wall. Even if I were to say the 120k, heck maybe even the 160k CP requirements were somewhat reasonably, the end of Varnimyr requires a 220k CP level and that doesn't have a Story Mode difficulty. And this is a region that jumps off from Elrainode which had a base 50k cross the board.


                      • NoctisCaeIum-solace-
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm at 379k CP, and I totally understand where you're coming from, reason why I was able to get that high was of course I cashed, and also had other people to have cashed in my stead like you said. I think Varnimyr should should have the story mode treatment like Elrianode did, not able to get rewards as you would on a normal difficulty run, but you can still get through the story. And the debuff wouldn't be there to impact f2p players who just want to get through the story, want to beat it cause story? Run story mode, want the rewards accompanying the dungeon? Run the normal difficulty.
                    • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382196}}
                      Level: {{esusrinfo_level382196}}
                      Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382196}}

                      10/10 during specific events before Varnimyr.

                      Once or twice a year we get events that give us Ring of Fury, 3rd job advance tickets, Skill Rings, +9 Amulets, free costumes, and other quality of life materials that help to alleviate most if not all of the grind.

                      8/10 before Varnimyr.

                      Even players who didn't join during these events can still make it through most of the game using only the things that can readily be found within like the +9 Heroic Amulet, event costumes, and free pet. Not getting the fetch aura drags the score down, though.

                      That said,

                      3/10 during Varnimyr.

                      Anyone below 220,000 combat power is locked out of the last Varnimyr dungeon, and Varnimyr dungeons in general are difficult even when players reach the minimum CP.



                      • Class: {{esusrinfo_class382217}}
                        Level: {{esusrinfo_level382217}}
                        Guild Name: {{esusrinfo_guild382217}}

                        I would say 5/10. Mostly because technically everything you want can be obtained without spending money. But this is also contingent on someone else paying money. If, for example, no KC-sellers/cash item sellers existed for a period of time, you would be presented with a wall for free players (though this situation is unlikely). I wouldn't rate it lower though because... the actual amount of luck needed to be f2p is pretty crazy. Especially with the current market, I like can't really imagine how a free player would achieve a +11 without any spectacular drops-- i.e only working off of selling barrier's fragments and eventually powders ...but they likely won't be able to efficiently farm powders without relying on carries. They would require events to give them gold stamps and other freebies to reduce side costs that reduce initial profits (entry tickets, consumables, stamps, anything that would allow new players to make a economic jump start without cut-back costs). Now obviously, if they just get a unique head hunter drop on their first 11-4 run, this would be a non-issue. But a f2p could basically farm for months and have nothing to show (i.e if there are no events giving out gold stamps and the player has not pulled a tear that sells above gold stamp cost) except powders and small items. I feel like with how the market was awhile ago, it would be possible but I mean 10m for a stack of powders would not get them far once they run out of stamina potions and real life grinding stamina lol. (also seriously with the removal of heroes coins, how do people get stamina potions regularly now!) Then also considering the profits you can make running dungeons that require strong gear... which a f2p would not have immediate access too drags this process out even longer by a lot unless they have frequent and consistent carries and are not wasting the majority of their gaming time queuing and sacrificing their firstborn to summon carries.


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